Hadley Catalano / Big Island Weekly – 2007-07-14 09:56:52
Local Monitoring Effort Gives the Cliche a New Meaning
HAWAI’I (June 27, 2007) — The device Doug Fox points into the South Kona wind looks like a hand-held temperature or wind speed gauge. Unfortunately his mission is not about the weather. He is checking for radioactive nano-particles that have recently been kicking up levels on his Gamma-Scout, a Gieger counter that measures radiation in the air and could indicate the presence of depleted uranium. This is the device that recently caused a whirlwind of concern and confusion.
Some researchers say that DU, which has been listed by the U.N. as a weapon of indiscriminate destruction and banned by the Geneva Convention and several international treaties has been used by the U.S. military in the both Gulf Wars. Many claim it is a cause of Gulf War Syndrome and the reason why cancers, leukemia and birth defects have skyrocketed in Iraq since 1991.There is suspicion that DU might have been used or is currently being used here on Hawai`i Island, at the Pohakuloa Training Base, and that has many residents alarmed, especially in light of the recent discovery of DU spotting rounds and tail assemblies at Schofield Barracks on O`ahu.
“The whole point is that we might have a Gulf War in our backyards,” said concerned citizen Mayumi Oda.
“We can’t say how contaminated Pohakuloa is but we know Schofield has it. We don’t have a hidden agenda. We are looking out for our health and safety,” confirmed Shannon Rudolph, another member of a West Hawai`i group focused on the issue.
Concerns recently elevated after record high radiation readings of 63 counts per minute were taken at Fox’s home, in `Opihihale, South Kona. Leuren Moret, DU expert and former employee and whistle blower from the Lawrence Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab, took the readings on April 22nd. Normal background radiation numbers range from five to 20 counts per minute. The information not only troubled Moret and Fox but caught the attention of Honolulu’s KITV evening news. During the broadcast, Moret said she continued monitoring throughout the day, receiving counts of up to 93, a number that experts agree is abnormally high. Moret attributed elevated readings to the use of DU, stating it “could only be because they were doing live fire with depleted uranium at Pohakuloa while we were doing the measurements.” She claims that DU radiation is being blown in the wind down to South Kona.
“Particularly at night when the winds blow off the mountain,” said Gunter Monkowski. He is another member of the community who, for the past several weeks, has been regularly monitoring the air surrounding Pohakuloa down to his home in Holualoa. Monkowski keeps residents updated with his readings. Contrary to a recent report in the Honolulu Weekly that quoted him as saying “so far I think [my readings] are still in the natural radiation scope,” Monkowski took readings of 54 cpm and 75 cpm with his Gammascout May 29th on the Saddle Road that he is concerned about. While such monitoring cannot be entirely accurate, it is enough to warrant investigation. The department of health and the 93rd Weapons of Mass Destruction Civil Support Team investigated the high counts. Both were quoted as saying they found nothing beyond background radiation, nothing out of the ordinary. Far from alleviating concerns, this investigation had many island residents upset over investigatory procedures and an overall lack of information.
“We want continuous independent testing and monitoring of our air and soil,” said Fox. “We want to decommission Pohakuloa.”
“Even though the bills to test for DU did not get funded, we have already paid for our officials to protect us and they are doing a bad job of it, “says Rudolph. “As far as Pohakuloa goes, if they were doing the job they would have someone at Mauna Kea State Park, camping out and monitoring night and day . . . They tested on one windless day and got normal readings. You must continuously monitor for a few weeks at minimum to see the pattern and the truth . . . All we are asking of the DOH is that they do their job, professionally and truthfully.”
Rudolph references H.B. 1452, introduced by Rep. Josh Green (District 6 Kailua-Kona) last session. The bill, which passed both the house and senate, asked for DU testing around military bases but stalled in the Finance Committee due to a lack of funding. It received opposition from the military and the state over technicalities regarding testing procedures and responsibilities.
Recently Green sent an open letter to Governor Lingle in reference to the bill stating the need to “reassure the people about the reliability of the military’s tests for depleted uranium in Hawai`i.” Following his June 5th letter Green said that he plans to bring the bill back the first day of the next session, January 17, 2008 and he has the support of Councilman Pete Hoffmann (District 9 North and South Kohala). Hoffmann told the Big Island Weekly that while he does support Green’s efforts for independent testing, he has doubts regarding the Army’s use of DU munitions at this time.
“I feel that there is a great deal of misinformation in the public domain regarding this issue at this point. The Army would be better off approaching the public’s criticism by jointly conducting such testing at the same time with a certified independent entity,” said Hoffmann, who served in the U.S. Army – Military Intelligence for 28 years.
“The initial cost of the testing was high, but the bill has been scaled down and we’re only asking for $500,000,” said Green. “This is a public health issue and while historically the military runs its own operation and I respect that, if they and DOH invited the public to be part of the process it would help allay the public’s fears and there would be no questioning.”
It is distrust of government and concern for the broader issue of DU use and contamination that gives rise to grassroots efforts like the one in West Hawai`i that includes Fox, Oda, Rudolph, Monkowski.
“I first learned of DU two or three years ago at Malu ‘Aina Peace and Justice meetings,” said Galen Kelly. “Jim Albertini helped to bring Leuren Moret to our island to teach us about the risks and consequences. Our group invited the public to several talks by Leuren with opportunities to ask questions. From this, more individuals and groups got involved, especially when we learned about the impact on our own island.”
Community activists and environmentalists’ calls for help are not going unnoticed: Green’s address to the governor stated he has received many letters and calls from constituents about the subject.
“As a group we pumped out tons of information to federal, state and county officials and the public and organized hundreds of statewide calls during the legislative session to support the bills,” said Rudolph. “Several residents around the island started their own monitoring, reporting spikes to the media, filing freedom of information requests, distributing bumper stickers and flyers, planned public educational events with knowledgeable speakers. One woman, Linda Faye Kroll, even wrote a play about DU through the eyes of a solider. According to the DOH Program Manager for Noise, Radiation and Indoor Air Quality Branch Manager Russell Takata, DOH’s opposition to H.B. 1452 was procedural. He’s offering to train residents in monitoring with their own equipment, including six hours of classroom instruction.
Rudolph says she and the other members of her group will gladly take the help.
Another West Hawai`i citizen’s group member Barbara Moore said she, as a resident and B&B owner, has already seen the effects the threat of DU has had on her clientele. One past visitor, who was planning on relocating to the island, changed her plans after learning about and watching the KITV brief on the hazards of DU.
The concerns are real and the reports are mounting; aside from the recent findings at Pohakuloa, the 2004 Defense Environmental Restoration Program reported to the U.S. Congress that there were 798 military contamination sites at 108 installments in Hawai`i, 96 of which had unexploded ordinances and seven of the military locales were considered Superfund sites.
“We want to know what’s on Pohakuloa,” said Fox. “What we hope is that it’s not as bad as we think.”
There are 70 comment(s) comments on this story.
You are in the public comment zone: What follows is not our product; it is generated by other people, we don’t vouch for it. A reminder: by using this web site you agree to accept our Rules of Engagement.
Skeptical wrote on Jul 11, 2007 11:13 PM:
” Naomi H. Harley, an authority in the area of radiation physics, obtained her Ph.D. in radiological physics at New York University and is currently a research professor at New York University School of Medicine, Department of Environmental Medicine. She has authored or co-authored more than 100 refereed journal articles on the measurement, dosimetry, and risk of internal radionuclides and external radiation, with emphasis on natural background radiation. She has authored six chapters in books dealing with radiation or toxicology and has three patents for radiation measurement devices. She is a councilmember of the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements (NCRP), an advisor to the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR), and an editor of the journal Environment International.
Skeptical wrote on Jul 11, 2007 11:12 PM:
” Hmmm…. I think that YOU might greatly benefit from getting certified in health physics, Dragonslayer. Your statements about Iraq being awash in radiation from DU make it obvious you need remedial help.
With your ridiculing of the level of expertise of a health physicist, are you implying that there’s some sort of consensus among people of an even higher level of expertise and understanding of radiation and how it affects human health that substantially differs from that of health physicists? (not talking about a consensus among anti-war, anti-Israel fanatics, btw)
You’re an environmental engineer and you believe in all the 9/11 conspiracy nonsense? You AND Leuren? Wow. Double wow. Perhaps the lesson here is that bias and extreme agendas are capable of selectively erasing certain vital parts of a perfectly good education. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 11, 2007 5:57 PM:
” We will always have plenty of christian crusaders in the military who believe in creationism willing to handle and fire DU, sit on DU-filled ammo boxes, handle destroyed tanks that have been hit with DU without protection, shower in water that is contaminated with DU, drink water that is contaminated with DU, live in tents with DU dust blowing around outside, urinate DU, breath DU on and on. And when their day is done, these christian crusaders will pray to god and government for protection and to deliver them from evil. Is there an irony going on here when you have a problem questioning anything and don’t believe in science? Its called survival of the fittest and sheep generally aren’t considered very fit.
When the christians return home, their government knows they are sheep so they tell them that all their symptoms are really imaginary and refuses to pay for health care. The poor sheep go home and wonder why they are abandoned by their government. Well the sheep’s life is ruined now, and there will always be plenty of people that continue to deny the health effects of DU so more sheep can be sacrificed. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 11, 2007 5:40 PM:
” Are you familiar with how much education it takes to be a Health Physicist or Radiological Tech? Not very much. These people, athough they perform important functions don’t have the educational background to be peer reviewing DU research. Elaine is as qualified as anyone even if she has a Bachelor’s degree. By the way, no one answers to you here so get off your high horse. Do you think just because someone has a degree, you automatically swallow every pill “the expert” gives you? Are you one of those types that thinks that doctors are gods and should not be questioned?
Sometimes education does nothing more than take away someone’s ability to think and process information if it does not fit into the paradigm that they learned in school. Get off thinking that a degree is the only way that you can contribute to this discussion or nail the truth. If that was the case, would you even have a voice in this discussion.
I once told Helabig that I had a masters in Environmental Engineering. Well, he came back with did you ever take a nuclear chemistry class or whatever. This is a never ending biographical witch hunt and a diversion from the real issue. Lets go ahead and get you back on track. I’ll start. The US should not be manufacturing DU from spent nuclear waste.
The US should not be providing Military AID and DU weapons to Israel so that Israel can commit genocide on all its borders. Even at this time, Israel is doing everything that it can to find a good enough reason to strike Iran or force us to strike Iran with DU weapons. Is there anything about Israel’s existence that does not involve violence?
Does your support of our continued existence and failure in Iraq after we bombed the hell out of them with our DU weapons somehow slow down the death toll that is going on day after day in Iraq? Or has your sheepish patriotic mentality numbed you to the fact that americans and iraqis are dying day after day even if we used DU during the initial strike to take out a few of the Iraqi’s outdated tanks?
Weak minded people hold to weak arguments ie not very much processing power. How come George Bush continues to BS you every day to thinking that things are really going to turn around in Iraq especially after the US has contaminated their environment with radioactive waste? Tons of radioactive waste in the form of spent nuclear material is equivalent to tens of thousands of nuclear weapons maybe not in killing power but in material. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 11, 2007 11:27 AM:
” I’m trying very hard NOT to jump to conclusions, Elaine. I’m giving you every opportunity to state, and enable us to verify, that you indeeed do hold a doctorate degree in science. You began to lay out your credentials, which you have explicitly used to aid your credibility, and they stopped at a BS in biology. Is it not only natural for us to wonder about the D.Sc? Now if you ARE an expert in radiation and how it affects human health, fine. But if not, have you sought out any certified health physicists to at least do an informal peer review of your articles? Because my lay impression is that what you imply about stored DU is extremely at odds with the current body of scientific literature on the subject. ”
Elaine Hunter, D.Sc. wrote on Jul 11, 2007 9:34 AM:
” Jumpers-to-conclusions of the world unite. Person ashamed of name, Skeptical, look in mirror to see who’s playing hard to get. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 10, 2007 11:29 PM:
” Are we to take that to mean that you don’t really have a doctorate in science, Elaine? Or are you just playing hard to get? I don’t see any proof or credible documentation of there being cases of rectal cancer among specifically those that sat on DU boxes in your article, just an assertion. I assume you have such information and will link us to it. ”
Elaine Hunter, D.Sc. wrote on Jul 10, 2007 2:01 PM:
” To begin to understand why sitting on DU ammo boxes has caused rectal cancer in vets read: http://www.omahaimc.org/newswire/display/667/index.php In this case it’s a problem caused by interactions due to stockpiling, not aerosol. Bottomline is it’s about configuration. The smaller, i.e. 20mm, 25mm, and 30mm are serious problems the government are trying to hide. The item removed from Docket 18576 is available on du-watch yahoogroups files. Also I don’t know who you are either. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 10, 2007 10:51 AM:
” Moret is assuming that the high readings are due to the range firing DU or to dust being immobilized from activity like helicopters, vehicles etc. It is perfectly possible that she got a reading of 80 millirems or more. This is giving her and others a reason to investigate further. This is why the army and health departments are going in there to the military zones and test do soil sampling.
She is following through with logical reasoning to elimate a possible source of radiation. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to operate a geiger counter nor does it need to be calibrated. You shut it on, and choose if you want the reading in millirems or counts per second. No I did not read the paper, I just read Helabigs interpretation in one of his comments. DU or even uranium ore will give off plenty of gamma alone to show many times above background without having a 7 Kg hot rock sitting next to the meter. Helabig is trying his best to either attack the instrument or the readings based on technical diversions. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 10, 2007 10:42 AM:
” I highly doubt that any soldiers got colon cancer from sitting on ammo boxes, but I would be open to seeing credible proof of such an occurrence. As far as I know, there’s never been any illness, much less death attributable to DU.
Hilarious how Dragonslayer seeks to compare my opinion regarding DU to that of a creationist, who’s opinions are ridiculed by nearly every credible scientist/biologist, while at the same time embracing equally ridiculous theories about the Pentagon, and I’m quite sure the Trade Center Towers as well, which are also rejected by every credible scientist and engineer on the planet. Perhaps another angle? Just sayin. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 10, 2007 10:31 AM:
” Curious Dragon how you say you haven’t read the report on the Gamma-Scout/DU by the retired Health Physicist when you were the one who brought up the 7kg figure: “Listen to Helabig’s personal Health Phycisist to tell you how you have to put 7 kg of DU next to a geiger counter to get a reading above background.”, you said below the other article. I had to go back and find where you got that, and saw the reference to needing 7000 g of DU to obtain sufficient Gamma readings to register above background on the Gamma-Scout. And no, he’s NOT saying that a 7 kg chunk of DU wouldn’t make a Gieger counter “scream”, he’s saying that the Gamma rays alone from that chunk, which are few and far between, wouldn’t on their own cause any screaming, or anything at all. So be honest now. Did you read the paper? I listened to Moret. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 10, 2007 10:14 AM:
” Elaine, Thank you for shedding some light on your qualifications, however I’m confused on how you get from a BS in biology to a Doctor of Science. Perhaps you simply didn’t include that part. If so, would you mind providing information on the specifics of your Doctorate, and the institution where it was earned, so that it can be verified? ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 10, 2007 10:06 AM:
” OK this is good. We have Dragonslayer and Ms. Hunter both in agreement that it is not possible to differentiate between DU and any number of other possible sources of a high reading, which would include Ms. Moret not knowing how to use/calibrate her instrument. So I assume you both cringe at that rather confidently made statement by Moret: “That is horrendous. [high radiation reading from Geiger counter] And that could ONLY be because they were doing live fire with depleted uranium at Pohakaloa while we were doing the measurements.” — Moret on KITV TV report, emphasis mine.
But the truth is that Moret’s claim is completely at odds with radiological reality. “ONLY because of DU” should read: “ONLY due to something OTHER than DU.” ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 10, 2007 7:26 AM:
” Skeptical, the gamma scout reads background radiation just fine. Of course it cannot differentiate between DU and any other type of radiation. No I have not read the paper on the 7 Kg that needs to be placed close to the detector to get a gamma reading above background. That is nuts. If you have pure DU sitting next to a detector, the instrument would be screaming high in the thousands.
Even if you had a piece of uranium ore with 5% uranium it could be 80,000 millirems or more. I don’t need to check the research because my personal experience knows better. You are not gaining any ground here clinging to Helabig’s experts. He can pay off anyone he needs to say whatever he wants. If DU is so harmless, then why are solder’s getting colon cancer by sitting on ammo boxes filled with DU? It would have to be screaming hot for this to happen.
Also, I don’t believe we should be calling it DU because it really comes from spent nuclear waste like spent nuclear fuel rods. Do you think there is actually some kind of standard to make the ammo less toxic? They are taking whatever materials they can get to make the shells. No one has convinced me that this is truly depleted uranium that has lower radioactivity, it is really spent nuclear waste. Skeptical, you don’t need to argue the case with us to keep on allowing the US military to spread nuclear waste around our country and globe. Once again arguing with you is like trying to argue evolution with a fundamentalist christian.
You will keep on clinging to whatever fits your paradigm. We are surrounded by the scientifically illiterate. 60% of americans think the earth is 6,000 years old. How can these same bible thumpers comprehend processes that evolve over 4.5 Billion years? That is why most of the army is christian crusaders because they don’t question anything they cannot understand.
This is a perfect situation for our leaders who don’t even take care for the veterans that return from Iraq with DU illnesses. Even you Skeptical, continue to do the bidding for the military by denying the damage to the health of our vets. Personally, I am glad that the continued use of DU will destroy the armies that use it especially the US, Israeli, British, Australian, and Russian armies. It will ultimately end all wars, and your continued insistence that it is harmless contributes to the eventual end to all war. ”
Elaine Hunter, D.Sc. wrote on Jul 10, 2007 6:38 AM:
” While the Gamma Scout is insufficient to specifically identify DU as the radioactive culprit, it is highly sufficient to show: Honolulu, Washington, D.C., CDC, etc. that we have aserious problem with excess radioactivity here, wherever here might be where the Gamma Scout is used. As for fear-mongering, I’m not a fear-monger. I’m an alarmist. You betcha by-golly WOW.
The purpose of an alarm to warn there is serious danger of some sort which needs to be invistigated and controlled. I won’t call myself an expert, just someone who has done a great deal of homework/research on nuclear madness since the late 1970’s. Also my BSinbiology includes cell & molecular biology, genetics and enough physics for a minor [chemistry & math, too for minors]. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 9, 2007 6:23 PM:
” That’s hardy relevant, unless you’re trying to admit that Moret is also indeed engaging in fear-mongering. I’d say they both did/are, however I seem to remember a pretty high-profile debate on the war issues, unlike DU, which most people have scarcely heard of. Could there be a reason for that? Could it be that journalists have looked into the issue and realized there wasn’t much there? No, the point is that the Dr.’s opinion IS qualified, and THAT is why I tend to accept it. If Moret could demonstrate the same level of sophistication regarding radiation, exposure potential and the consequences of that exposure, perhaps I would accept her judgments as well.
But at least it appears like you’ve read the paper, is that correct? We’re still waiting on Leuren, who seems to disappear whenever we want to simply ask that she prove her qualifications and expertise, and justify her methodology in a technical manner fitting of an “international expert”. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 9, 2007 4:55 PM:
” First of all, fear-mongering is a specialty that was perfected by the neocons, and the Bush/Cheney march to war. I am glad that you accept an unqualified opinion about the gamma scout from the Dr. just because it fits with your preconceived protective mechanisms to be in denial. I can understand that self-preservation is a strong desire for sheople. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 9, 2007 4:34 PM:
” I think that Elaine Hunter, D.Sc., who has also claimed expert scientific status, needs to provide proof and documentation of her expertise in the fields of health physics and epidemiology. —/—
However, it’s at least heartening to see that she, along with presumably the whole health physics community, agrees that the “Gamma-Scout” is not the proper instrument to rely on for data with which to go on TV and YouTube and responsibly address the local community and the world about an emotional and fear-engendering public health issue. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 9, 2007 2:17 PM:
” You seem to have an outstanding talent for missing the point, Dragonslayer. Yes, of course the Gamma-Scout measures background radiation just fine, and again, I was really kidding when I said it was a toy. TOYING AROUND with it would be a better description, because to think that someone could come to ANY conclusion from whatever reading they obtained on the Gamma-Scout as to the source of those readings, unless of course they were right up next to an obvious radiation source, is silly. —-/—-
I took the time to sign up for Mr. Helbig’s Yahoo group in order to read the analysis provided by someone qualified to do so regarding using the Gamma-Scout for detection of DU particles in the air. I would urge you and especially Ms. Moret to do so as well. I think it’s necessary for Ms. Moret to provide a technical rebuttal to that rather technical and convincing analysis for the reasons I layed out in my first comment here. I doubt very much she will, because I doubt very much that she has the technical knowledge necessary to do so, and therein lies my ultimate point. —-/—- But….we’ll see. We’ll see if she really is an “international expert”, or if she’s merely engaging in irresponsible fear-mongering for purposes of promoting herself and her extreme anti-war, anti-military, anti-everything it would seem agenda. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 9, 2007 12:57 PM:
” Skeptical, you have learned just enough about DU and radiation detectors to be filled with questions. I would defer to people that have greater expertise than you (almost anyone). Once again, the gamma scout measures background radiation just fine. It has a simple vacuum tube filled with gas called a geiger-muller counter. It reads in millirems. This is a state of the art device based on technology that is more than 50 years old. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 9, 2007 12:54 PM:
” Thanks Elaine for your continued efforts to try and connect the disciplines with biology in the case of DU exposure. ”
Elaine Hunter, D.Sc. wrote on Jul 9, 2007 5:29 AM:
” Stalking the Wild Radioactivity in Hawaii While I have no doubt there is excess radioactivity detectable in Hawaii, I do have some serious questions about the source. In one video I watched there is a military helicopter stirring a great deal of dust some of which would logically be deposited downwind . If that dust contained radioisotopes, some of them would get redistributed—downwind.
However that does not mean it is necessarily from the use of concentrated “depleted” uranium [DU] ammunition. I’m not at all convinced that a “Gamma Scout” could pinpoint that a source of excess radioactivity is precisely DU; it’s not that sophisticated. I’m going to go way out on a scientific limb and say it is my belief that the source of excess radioactivity in Hawaii is the residual fallout from the testing of nuclear bombs, especially in the Pacific Islands and in China. And that fallout would have included DU, contrary to the opinion I read recently that not much DU was included in nuclear bombs. There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary. It was used as a neutron in most thermonuclear [hydrogen] bombs. Tons of of it.
The fallout had to include DU plus a plethora of nasty artificial radioisotopes fission products. The fetal and birth defects death records for Hawaii from 1940-1986 bear mute testimony to my theory. I’m seeking away to give a voice. Yes, I extracted these data from the US Vital Statistics for Mortality and Morbidity, along with the same data for all US states and territories. It took months. Then I correlated these data with nuclear testing records. It took months. Hawaii and Colorado yielded the most stunning data once just numbers were graphed.
These graphs have not been published. They are too big to put on the internet and I have no support to do it if it were possible. It’s all still in pencil. Here I will cite one disturbing example: the US bombed Enewetok, Marshall Islands, 4 times in April and May of 1951. We don’t have government records for the Marshall Islands. We do for Hawaii. Hawaii entries for deaths due to birth defects from 1951 through 1958 were not recorded in the US data, even though they were present for the years 1940-1950. The US tested in the Pacific Islands through 1958.
The test ban treaty ended testing temporarily in 1959. Back to the Hawaii data: the fetal death entries WERE present for 1951-1958. The fetal death rates for Hawaii soared from 14.0 to 25.3 [per 1,000 live births] in 1968, the year following what was possibly the “dirtiest” ever nuclear test, China’s 3-stage fission-fusion-fission test [plus 3 other tests in China] in 1967 Fetal deaths? Death of a fetus at 20 or more weeks. Also frequently lethal birth defects. Data is too much to go further here.
What’s written above gives a great deal to digest. Many of the radioisotopes from fallout have long half lives—they are still there to be measured. There’s a huge difference between doing science and doing journalism. I don’t have the media savvy of Moret or Nichols, however I do have more biology and physics savvy than they or Helbig do. I’ve done much other rsearch that he chooses to ignore. [note this is also a blog response to 2 recent articles in Big Island Weekly]. DU and other radioisotopes/heavy metals are bad news to living beings what ever their source. “I’m quaking in my genes knowing the mayhem men manufacture” Elaine Hunter, D.Sc. ”
Alohabunny wrote on Jul 8, 2007 11:08 PM:
” Why would anyone without a hidden agenda try to prevent testing our environment for DU? And when did having the state health department, who has a person in charge of radiation monitoring, become a big burden just to do their job? Has our government really eroded so far that hiding the truth has become part of their official work? These are the obvious questions everyone in this state should be asking. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 8, 2007 7:54 AM:
” I realize that the Gamma-Scout is not a toy, literally, but my suspicion is that it is not the proper instrument to use in order to detect the presence of DU “nano-particles”. There is no mention of depleted uranium on the GS website, however they do answer a question about radon gas in their FAQ: —/—
“The Gamma-Scout® can detect radon gas (alpha particles) although for best results we recommend you filter the air for several days and measure the particulate residue. Since radon gas is highly diffuse and emits an extremely low level of radiation, concentrating the particulate is the best way to quickly determine if there’s a problem. If you are very concerned about radon we recommend also using a canister. This will measure over a longer period of time and will offer confirmation of any abnormal readings.” —/—
DU nanoparticles (also alpha particles, I believe) would obviously be even more diffuse than radon gas, so the idea of Moret waving around a geiger counter and coming up with “horrendous” readings supposedly from DU “nano-particles” seems scientifically erroneous to me. But apparently, she’s the international expert, not me. I’d just like some verification of that. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 7, 2007 9:51 AM:
” Your primary misassumption, Dragonslayer, is that a missile range or battlefield is contaminated, I assume you mean in some sort of dangerous, uranium/radiation sort of way. First of all, it doesn’t look like there’s ever been any significant use of DU weaponry on the Hawaii site in question. But even if there was, numerous studies have concluded it would pose little if any risk to anyone’s health. Nano-particles? Just the name dictates that any particles would be so widely dispersed and long gone as to be insignificant.
Why, if these “nano-particles” are so horrifically harmful, haven’t any of the dozens of friendly-fire victims from Gulf War I, who really, actually DID breath these particles in concentration close up and personal, felt any ill-effects, even after all these years? Why have no birth defects resulted, even among those with DU fragments still in their bodies? It’s funny how when it’s pointed out just how weakly radioactive DU is, that its detractors then resort to reducing the culprit down to stealth mode, where nobody can really detect it, but it’s there, trust us, and it’s a killer. “It does not matter if Moret is right about everything she says” Of course it matters. She is the one stirring up all this controversy, based on credentials she still hasn’t detailed. But you give it away there. The true nature of the threat is unimportant, we have an agenda to carry out. Anti-war, anti-nuclear. The more you talk, the clearer it gets. —/— The battlefield is contaminated alright — contaminated with agenda-driven misinformation and fear-mongering. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 6, 2007 5:30 PM:
” The Gamma scout geiger counter is not a toy, it is a state of the art precision calibrated instrument. Go to their website at http://www.gammascout.com/ Everyone should have one of these. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 6, 2007 4:52 PM:
” You cannot compare a uranium hazardous waste site to a contaminated missle range or battle field. Here’s why. A uranium hazarous waste site like where I’m familiar has uranium in some sort of more concentrated yet natural state. Sure the background radiation is higher when at a hazardous waste site, but at least I don’t have to worry about breathing nanoparticles of uranium oxide. When uranium that has been purified and then “depleted” is put on an end of a missle or bullet, it hits a target and vaporizes into nanoparticles. This is not a natural state of uranium to be exposed. This is a lethal state of uranium if you get a large enough dose for which there is good enough data to be suspicious that it is extremely toxic to all life.
I would be on or live next to a uranium mine or mill anyday compared to a location that exploded and tested DU weaponry. It is the chemical reaction upon impact of the DU shell hitting its target that makes it an extreme health hazard. Now, add the very likely possiblity that it is not just pure depleted uranium but actually a mixture that comes from spent fuel rods and you have some very nasty material whose sole purpose is to not only destroy the initial target, but keep on harming the inhabitants of that location for thousands of years.
Add to the fact that no one is going to be able to clean it up and remediate the site back to the way it was. I know this very well as I am trying to clean sites up that have controlled uranium milling processes and it is still very difficult and expensive to remediate. A DU site used by the military for testing or practice will never be cleaned up to any standard that would allow habitation ever again. So in my mind, it does not matter if Moret is right about everything she says, it does not matter.
The point that we are all trying to make here is that we should not be manufacturing, testing, and firing DU weaponry here or anywhere else. The products at the end of the nuclear fuel cycle should not be used in weapons. Nuclear waste should be put in an appopriate storage facility. The lack of ethics exhibited by our politicians in the case of DU is a compelling argument for ending all development of uranium resources, and nuclear energy. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 6, 2007 3:01 PM:
” You seem to have totally missed the point — again. My personal expertise on DU is not the issue; I’m not the one raising fears within the public without first putting forward my verifiable credentials for doing so, and without the proper verification and duplication that is necessary before such a serious action. —-/—-
The cost of an innacurate assessment by Moret is undue fear and likely panic among certain people, the incalculable economic cost of the Island having taken on a tarnished reputation that would be totally unjustified, and the baseless sullying of the reputation of the military here and around the world. People who already hate us hate us even more, and try to do us harm even more, based on what I suspect is a wholly bogus issue. —-/—-
If you’re familiar with the uranium mining/processing industry, you should know that there have been little if any health effects resulting, especially radiation related, excluding underground radon exposure, which is an entirely different issue. —-/—- This is not to say of course that the uranium industry doesn’t need to be cleaned up after, just like about any industry, but don’t make it sound like the whole place is glowing orange with dangerous radiation, and don’t try to connect this with some likely bogus readings someone got from their toy geiger counter in Hawaii, conveniently claiming that it just HAS to be from DU. — http://tinyurl.com/ywcrt5 ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 6, 2007 1:37 PM:
” Skeptical, you are not an expert on DU. Who are you kidding? Quit wasting everyone’s time here trying to be an authority figure. I happen to remediate hazardous waste sites for a living.
My current project is a uranium mill. You don’t know jack about what it takes to clean up a contaminated site, nor do you really care. You just want everyone to think that DU in the air is like taking vitamins. Its good for you. No one believes you my friend. The more you keep up the act the more you are a joke to yourself and everyone who has to listen to your diatribe. Unfortunately, you aren’t even entertaining, just intellectually challenged. Or even, another govt spokeperson compromised by your paycheck, which makes you very small minded indeed. ”
big ass wrote on Jul 5, 2007 8:24 PM:
” hi, warning DU is a dangerous …Dragonbutcherslayer ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 5, 2007 7:43 PM:
” Dragonslayer — Thank you for confirming your sophomoric gullibility and your lack of ability to make a substantive argument. Now we’re just waiting on Leuren. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 5, 2007 7:25 PM:
” ATTENTION!! Stand at attention Helabitc!! Repeat after me! DU is good! DU makes you stong! DU makes you secure! DU is not really DU. It is spent nuclear waste! It comes from spent nuclear reactors! It should be in a hazardous waste facility! Not on weapons that are fired in the US and outside the US! Not fired by Israel and supplied by the US! Not fired by Israel to irradiate populations to sterility and kidney failure in Palestine and Lebanon! Don’t slouch your shoulders Helabitc! Stand at attention! The US does not need to be using DU weapons on firing ranges and its nuclear testing labs at Sandia and Livermore to depopulate american populations! Or do you have a little bit of environmentalist in you Helabitc? I can see a soft green spot there on your belly.
Depopulation is good for the planet you say there Helabitc. Sorry I feel like we keep on misunderstanding you. Every day you get up out of bed and fight for the planet and a healthy environment for all struggling animals on the planet. What a dreamer you are helabig? working tirelessly day after day to clean up our environment. Where is your next target Helabitc? ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 5, 2007 6:53 PM:
” See the new posting at DUStory — it is in Adobe Acrobat so it can not readily be posted here. Blaine Howard, retired formerly Certified, Health Physicist, analyzed the Gamma Scout meter in depth and found that there is NO WAY that Moret could have not detected DU in the air over Hawaii.
This is just another example of Helabig lying about what little science he does know and he never took a course in radiation measurement, geology of radioactive minerals, meterology or worked in these fields. He just loves the limelight and he has not sucked all of you in Hawaii in. He is not an expert on anything other than self-promotion. Mirrors are a b$tch from hell. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 5, 2007 6:48 PM:
” I can feel that the dark force in the universe is weakening with every moment that Helabig is confronted with his own souless march to death. ”
Roger Helbig wrote on Jul 5, 2007 5:22 PM:
” See the new posting at DUStory — it is in Adobe Acrobat so it can not readily be posted here. Blaine Howard, retired formerly Certified, Health Physicist, analyzed the Gamma Scout meter in depth and found that there is NO WAY that Moret could have detected DU in the air over Hawaii. This is just another example of Moret lying about what little science she does know and she never took a course in radiation measurement, geology of radioactive minerals, meterology or worked in these fields. She just loves the limelight and she has sucked all of you in Hawaii in.
She is not an expert on anything other than self-promotion. See Blaine Howard’s excellent analysis of the Gamma Scout and DU. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DUStory/files/ Gamma Scout Meter and DU.pdf Why the Gamma Scout Meter used by Leuren Moret in Hawaii can not detect DU in the air 67 KB ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 5, 2007 3:24 PM:
” Oh yeah, skeptical was the only person that was allowed to see the video of the plane hitting the pentagram, right skeptical. Tell us how they televised it for everyone to see the plane hit the pentagram, there skeptical. If you are so skeptical, then why do you trust authority so much? Doesn’t really make sense to those of us that are really skeptical. At least you have a pulse. I will give you that. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 5, 2007 1:29 PM:
” LOL jojo. At least I HAVE an argument, which simply is that people who actually KNOW about DU and it’s potential for harm DON’T conclude that it’s all that dangerous. — We’re still waiting for verification that Ms. Moret is one of those people. — And we’re still waiting for her to expand on her brilliant theory about a DU tipped missile hitting the pentagon, instead of an airliner, and how that conclusion should engender confidence in the quality of her work on DU.
jojo wrote on Jul 5, 2007 12:40 PM:
” skeptical- your arguments are sooooo pathetic. You’re lucky Dragonslayer found such a great foil as yourself. You obviously get paid by the govt to spout this crap. God knows Hawaii is full of those. DU is killing Americans living near military bases all over the nation. You ONI trolls are sooo ubiquitious. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 5, 2007 12:18 PM:
” Again, for those who may have missed it within my post on this paragraph challenged message board, here is Leuren Moret in the raw. Here is where she exposes herself to be a biased, agenda driven propagandist, to the point of subscribing to what only can be described as insanity regarding the 9/11 attacks: …. http://tinyurl.com/yqph4y ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 5, 2007 11:22 AM:
” Gosh “Dragonslayer”, we here in Hawaii know “kahunas” to be wise men. Care to rephrase? Now please, you and Leuren tell us more about that DU penetrator that hit the Pentagon. Give us an indication of your level of ability to separate fantasy from reality. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 4, 2007 6:28 PM:
” Roger, you must have one serious set of kahunas. And I’m not talking about your man breasts, but those huge balls between your legs. It takes a real man with your elephant-sized balls to stand up for truth in the face of all this discrimination from those of us with pure selfish means like Leuren Moret who are clearly cashing in on DU movement. I applaud you for siding with the government and military knowing full well that you are doing a great job covering their lies and deceit. You reward will be eternal damnation in Hell. What will that perverted paycheck be worth to you when eternally damned? What does someone without a soul care about being damned to Hell? Not much of an issue really….right Roger Helabig Balls? ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 4, 2007 6:03 PM:
” DU is for population control in the middle east. Heaven forbid letting middle easterners use their own resources like oil. If we reduce their population and make their environment so uninhabitable that no one can liver there, then the pentagram goons will have succeeded. It is also good for population control anywhere you can get the public to swallow the bitter pill. Or we can go through our Orwellian lives and listen to Roger the Skeptic, and keep on drinking the kool-aid, or I mean, soma. One good thing about depleted uranium is that it destroys any military that uses it. Right Roger!? Half of US veterans since Gulf War I have Gulf War Syndrome.
The Israeli army is destroying itself and its own population. If the Israeli Army had an option, it would spread DU to Iran also with the blessing from the Pope, King Cheney, and the Queen of England. Roger keep up the good work! Your patriotism is detroying major militaries around the globe. I get it now, you are ultimately fighting for peace. Sorry I feel like we have been misunderstanding you all along. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 4, 2007 5:12 PM:
” Northern California at Lawrence Livermore Lab is going through the same fight as Hawaii to stop DU explosions affecting their air quality, and property values. Hawaii and Tracy/Livermore citizens need to network and pull together their resources and keep spreading the awareness.
The movement is gaining momentum. Go to
to follow the fight against Site 300. Let join the brave people that live in Tracy just 5 miles from Lawrence Livermore Lab where they test DU weapons. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 4, 2007 4:43 PM:
” Dedicated to my good buddy “skeptical” My evil twin skeptical has become completely lost in his own mind (Roger Helabig smells in skepticals comment). What Roger?, you had a psychotic episode and became skeptical instead of “Officer Helabig for his britches”. You sound lost in the concrete military complex box with your tirade on educational credentials. “The goons” don’t like the sunshine to shine in their concrete box. It burns their skin. Roger, I mean “skeptical”, how about if you run out and get yourself an institutionalized education at the Psych ward. They won’t need to give you a labotomy because you already lost your own will. ”
Dragonslayer wrote on Jul 4, 2007 3:39 PM:
” I am very impressed, Leuren that you have created such a fan with Roger the “Hellbig” always living up to his name. He wrote your biography there in his last comment. It is so obvious that all he does is act like an elementary school child calling names because he is so frustrated that his psychological game is failing to lead people who follow the truth astray. How does it feel Roger to gape deep inside that empty black hole inside your chest everyday you go to work at the house of Death Worship, the pentagon? How does it feel to walk the halls of the pentagon amongst all the souless dead little uniformed school children who aren’t allowed to express their opinion even if they had one? Does that paycheck you get every month feel so good that you would sell out truth, and the pursuit of free life for even those that don’t go to the same church as you? I am talking about that Satan worshiping church that you joined where you believe in sacrifice of humans and destruction of the planet just so your gasoline is affordable.
What did you say?, “they” really don’t pay you that much to be such an @$$? Does that make you even more frustrated that you are living on a government salary? So called “pentagon goons” like yourself deserve to be wiped off the planet. If we keep pissing all these countries off with the “Dick/Bush” foreign policy, and contributing to Israel’s ability to DU all of its neighbors into its own collective suicide, maybe Israel or even Russia will do us all a favor and take out your house of employment with their nuclear weapons. Oh did we forget to mention to everyone that a DU Penetrator Cruise Missle hit the Pentagon and not an airplaine.
Do you sleep cosy at night knowing that the US government can get out of control and attack itself? Would you say that Israel has never attacked the US and would not dare to do so in the future? Is there anything about Israel’s existence that does not involve violence? Bring it on Roger, I miss playing with you like a cat toys with a mouse just before the kill. ”
Skeptical wrote on Jul 4, 2007 12:14 AM:
” I don’t like the idea of radioactive contamination, who does? However, I also don’t like over-hyped scare mongering, and after observing and studying this anti-DU movement, which is seeming so influenced by Leuren Moret, I’m strongly suspecting that this is their life-blood. Because there seems to be some question as to the true qualification of Ms. Moret for taking and interpreting radiation readings, as well as properly putting them in perspective regarding their origin and actual threat level, and because Ms. Moret is constantly referred to as an “international expert”, and a “nuclear scientist”, I think it’s incumbent upon her to detail her past education, employment and research history such that it is possible to verify and scrutinize. I’ve never seen such a bio about her, only general and generic descriptions that may or may not support her oft repeated introductions. Another troubling aspect regarding Moret is her embracing of several ridiculous and thoroughly debunked conspiracy theories relating to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. This alone is cause for questioning her ability to separate science from science fiction: http://tinyurl.com/yqph4y The main reason for my skepticism regarding DU is that I’ve read several detailed reports by scientists/researchers who HAVE properly listed their credentials in fields such as radiation, health physics, chemistry, etc., and they pretty much unanimously conclude that DU is nothing close to being the devastating threat to world health that Moret and others make it out to be. In fact, most of the conclusions determine the probability of DU causing measurable harm to humans as being extremely low. You can use the Google Scholar search function to locate properly conducted studies. Some of us are content to trust that someone who describes themselves as an “international expert”, or a “nuclear scientist” surly would never exaggerate or misuse those titles, but many of us are more wary than that. Putting forth unsupportable claims in the area of public health is a serious disservice, and I hope that people making such apocalyptic accusations against DU and the military are able to back them up with scientifically valid and peer-reviewed research, and with the credentials necessary to perform such extraordinarily complicated analyses. ”
ateful Amercans have become wrote on Jul 2, 2007 11:19 PM:
” google lauren Moret. She used to work at Livermore Labs. Do your omeworrk before you attack her like that. It’s amazing how hateful Americans have become. ”
Roger Helbig wrote on Jul 2, 2007 7:48 PM:
” I see where Moret describes herself as an international DU expert. Moret is an international con artist. She never studied DU; she has never made any scientific discovery dealing with DU and she has never performed any scientific research dealing with DU or any other radioactive substance. Rumor has it, but I can not confirm it, that her last job before becoming appointed to the City of Berkeley’s Community Environmental Advisory Commission was being the hairdresser for a City Council member.
I can not confirm it because if she was she was not properly licensed, but then again if you lie about DU why care about a minor inconvenience like a license. I want whoever invited Moret to Hawaii to tell the world how much they paid Moret to come there. Who paid for the airline tickets; who paid for the hotel rooms, etc.? How much? Moret is not a non-profit entity as far as I know. Roger W Helbig rwhelbig at gee mail dot com ”
Roger Helbig wrote on Jul 2, 2007 7:42 PM:
” The DU is not there and it is not getting into the air or your lungs — hello .. Moret may have cancer maps, but they have nothing to do with DU, just as Moret’s previous claims that a worldwide epidemic of diabetes was due to US use of DU in Iraq. Moret parrots other liars like Chris Busby. Moret has not disputed who she really is, a failed scientist drop out who once tried to get a doctorate in geology, but probably found that science is not like political science; you actually have to make and record observations, not just spin lies and confuse the public. HELLO. Me, I am just me — I work for no one in this venture. I am very scared about what people like Moret are doing by their continual drumbeat peppering the net with lie after lie. I am scared that they will convince some future terrorist (I wonder, since some of the suspects in UK are medical doctors, that they may not have already been convinced)that they should pay the US/UK back for poisoning their world forever.
That is especially scary since that never happened and people like Moret put politics in front of science and peddle bad science fiction to an adoring public who wants very much to believe because they hate Bush. Surprise, I was one of those who contributed to flying the banner that the nascent Citizens for Legitimate Government internet group flew over the Rose Bowl in 2001.
I was a dedicated internet worker for John Kerry and combatted the Swift Boat Liars. I even was commended for my research into the lies about John Kerry’s discharge from the Naval Reserve. I most definitely am not a Bush lover, but I am a lover of America and I want to keep it safe and I surely do not want false information spread repeatedly around the world because it makes Bush look bad. That’s not what it is all about. Roger W Helbig write me — I will write back rwhelbig at gee mail dot com I have a lot of factual information to share and I can not attach files here. ”
TEST ALL HAWAII FOR DU wrote on Jun 30, 2007 8:47 AM:
” > Reported in “The Enemy Within” (1996) by Jay > Gould, page 194: “The Nevada downwinders’ suits were unsuccessful. Despite winning their case in the lower courts, the Appellate Court ruled in favor of the AEC on > the grounds that the US government could not be held responsible. At one point, one of the lawyers for the plaintiffs sent a series of interrogatories to the AEC defense counsel with the following simple question: Who has the responsibility for the safety and welfare of persons and their property near areas of possible fallout? “The AEC answered as follows: ” ‘It is the responsiblity of the heads of families and owners of property to protect their families and their > property from possible radioactive fallout.'” ”
NooN wrote on Jun 29, 2007 6:53 PM:
U need to take sea vegetation from under the Sea, leaves, and hair from animals & people & send it to: doctors data laboratory 4 hair analysis doctorsdata.com They have an 800 number. Please call & ask advice of the Laboratory Clinicians please. They can scientifically advise U. Aloha KaiLai. NooN from Family Tree Farm. ”
Jonathan Cole wrote on Jun 29, 2007 4:09 PM:
” I think there is always some truth to every side of every story. If the story happens to be 1. about a potentially deadly poison (alpha radiation in DU) which admittedly (by the military)was used at an earlier time, 2. has not been cleaned up and 3. is constantly at risk of being put into the wind-stream by current activities at Pohakuloa, then 4. only a psycho or a very nasty criminal would want to prevent the community from getting to the bottom of the matter.
We have an excellent local guy from Maui, Mr Pang, who is experienced in public health issues and is ex-military. He can easily be the point-man for an independent view of whatever testing regime is undertaken. Not to undertake thorough testing with independent oversight would be criminal. And by the way, you politicians, no one is immune to this invisible threat, assuming that it is there.
Your children and grandchildren are at risk too. So let’s stop quarreling and do the right and smart thing in this case. The amount of money for measuring this problem is probably less than the government’s monthly public relations expenditures. We can afford it. We cannot afford to stick our heads in the sand. ”
Elaine Hunter wrote on Jun 29, 2007 3:45 PM:
” Hotter than you think! Lt. Col. Roger Helbig [Ret.] does his best to be the bane of the existence of activist concerned about concentrated “depleted” uranium munitions [DU]. Thank Heaven & various email providers for the “Block Sender” function! He has perseverance. He is not the only one. He is also not the only one who left the path of reality and allowed himself to be educated into ignorance. He has not done his homework.
But neither have most military head honchos, or even activists, at least not on some very important and ignored aspects of this insidious, surreptitious serial killer “DU”. DU munitions are not as bad as activists think they are. No, no, they are WORSE. But don’t take my word for it. Let your fingers take a hike to http://dms.dot.gov click on “Simple Search” and type in 18576 for the docket number. This docket has proved to be a treasure trove of data from various horses’ mouths. Find docket entry RSPA-2004-18576-276. Oh, wait a minute, you can’t read that item any more. That item has been removed from the docket per Joseph Solomey, Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, Assistant Chief Counsel, Hazardous Material Safety Law Division.
Here’s why, the attachment included the following official government statement: “Pallet contact radiation dose rates are generally twice, and in one case, over four times the regulatory limit for Limited Quantity materials. However, pallet and modal conveyance dose rates at one meter are generally a multiple of three to six time justifiable Limited Quantity classification, and for one sized round, six to eleven times.
In the case of this latter round, inappropriate radiation exposures could occur to transport workers by being in the vicinity of the material for just 100 hours per year.” Folks they are talking about munitions that are in TRANSPORT; munitions that have NOT been used in battle. There is a docket entry from Crane Army Ammunition Activity, IN, clearly stating that it is gamma radiation being measured.
There are veterans who have gotten rectal cancer from sitting on DU ammo boxes! We know for sure particulate DU is not inhaled through the rectum and the ammo boxes do not emit particulate. The cause? Gamma, rays, x-rays, and neutron zipping and zapping out of the ammo boxes are the causes. Because of this, in addition to particulate fallout when DU munitions are used in battle, they are indeed worse than most activitsts think. ”
Leuren Moret wrote on Jun 29, 2007 2:58 PM:
” Lt. Col. Roger Helbig is a part of the psyops apparatus in the Depleted Uranium Office in the Pentagon. Criminal complaints can be made against the Pentagon DU Director Michael Kilpatrick MD, Colonel Eric Daxon, and harrassers Col. Bob Cherry and Lt. Col. Roger Helbig to the US Army Inspector Generals office at toll free 1-800-752-9747 in the Pentagon. Lt. Col. Roger Helbig can be contacted at 510) 620-6731, or ROGER W HELBIG(born July 1947) 1021 LASSEN ST RICHMOND CA home # 510-233-8206 Please give all of them a piece of your mind. They deserve to know what we think of them poisoning the global atmosphere with radiation which has a half-life of 4.5 billion years. AND its illegal as hell. ”
Leuren Moret wrote on Jun 29, 2007 2:49 PM:
” The gamma-scout can be ordered in Germany at this website http://www.gamma-scout.com/ but they may have a distributor in Australia. I am an international DU expert and scientist, and started this radiation monitoring project. I now have 3 provinces in Canada that also want to do the air monitoring. The air monitoring is the most important because inhalation of radioactive DU nanoparticles is a horrendous biotoxin, probably the worst known to living systems.
We set up citizen air monitoring stations in their homes. The gamma-scout is about US$400 and comes with a 10-12 year battery, software to process the data and establish a database, and the gamma-scout can be plugged into the computer and left to monitor indefinitely. Lancelin is being overly exposed to DU and you can expect a very large increase in diabetes which is caused by the DU aerosols.
The dust is traveling around the world from Lancelin, not just locally. In fact the DU and Uranium dust from mining in Australia have probably caused a 50% die-off of the Tasmanian Devil since uranium has been reported in the atmosphere on the West coast of Tasmania.
The poor Tasmanian Devils get very rapid cancers on their mouths and die within months (immune system damage by the Uranium). DU is a global disaster for all living things. It has turned Planet Earth into “The Queen’s Death Star”. www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2006/DU-Europe-Moret26feb06.htm ”
concerned from Australia wrote on Jun 29, 2007 1:58 PM:
” to all who live near the ranges in Hawaii I know how you feel and I wish you all the best in your efforts to find the truth and get the military to stop treating civilians as expendable lab rats. we have a similar situation here in Lancelin Western Australia with US and australian forces using live bombs just 8km ( 5 miles ) from our homes. We are assured DU has never been used and will never be used but how can we believe them in view of the evidence in Hawaii and in Vieques. When Doug Rokke came here in 2003 he said he would be sure it has or will be. And there does seem to be a lot of people here getting cancer. What I need to know please is how to go about testing as you have done ? what does a gamma – scout cost and how far away from the impact areas are you taking the readings ? ”
GEORGE IN fRANCE wrote on Jun 29, 2007 10:13 AM:
” fOR mOTIVATION PLEASE SEE : – http://liberty.hypermart.net/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2006/04/29/death_made_in_america ”
George in France wrote on Jun 29, 2007 10:04 AM:
” Hi Hawains again – If the answers are YES , . . I hrard on C-Span from a long time Hill Secretary that E-mails and petitions are Spam to the Congresmen and Senators. – That only the re_election counts. – And that many many many little groups of 20 angry people CONSTANTLY at their private residences do wonders. – – – So all over the USA You need per State just 25 groups which is 500 persons per State which is usable and responsable and duty to save your children, grandchildren and all animals on this planet. ”
GEORGE IN fRANCE wrote on Jun 29, 2007 9:50 AM:
” hI Hawains IS IT TRUE THAT JUST ONE BULLET PRODUCES OVER ONE BILLION AIRBORNE MOLECULES.? One molecule inhaled, does it mean absolutely death ? Does the molecule continue doing it after incineration of the first victim during 4.500 Million years , . . the age of the sun? Do we have the possibility to re_evolutionize our race during the next 100 million years – as we did after the dinosaurs ? How is BEE starvation in Hawai – They are so sticky and nectar is too – In Taiwan – where they exercize big big time Bee starvation is 92%. There where no US bullets or busters are exercized with, . . Bee Extermination is 0% like here in France. – (UK is 62%). Dr Moret : if Iran is B_Busted with DU will that be to much after Iraq and be the end of the human race within 2/4 generations. If so , . . Have these generals no offspring ? Why do they make Hitler into a Saint by comparison ? ps Dr Moret, If little people listen to you now, . . use the BEES in your talks. People are more sensible for Bees. ”
Eric McLaughlin CT wrote on Jun 29, 2007 9:42 AM:
” The only